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Garret
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Garret, our losses are normally(?) around 30% so 50% was huge. This year I'm not hearing about a lot of loses here in California. Our drought is causing a few almond orchards to tear out trees. Plus the girls have been able to get out and collect pollen and nectar. We're seeing swarming here already.


Thanks Ron, what I was trying to say, maybe not very well, is as Dennis said in the video that splitting hives seemed to make a difference in survivorship. Essentially this is what the migratory beekeepers do with their colonies by removing capped brood and re-queening when breaking them down.

The backyard beeks are not inclined to make splits and could indicate a reason for higher mortality for them. Could be lack of experience or lack of space to place extra colonies due to number of hives allowed. The point being that they are not managing the bees once they get them in a way that rejuvenates them.

I once heard a very well known commercial beekeeper tell a group of people that after almond pollination he draws off the capped brood from his colonies to make up nucs to sell along will the mites that go with the capped brood. My question would be who is buying these bees?
Bugscouter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject:

Folks,

This is a volunteer survey. Beeks have to go to the BeeInformed web site and sign up by providing their email. Then they send out a email with the survey attached. I think last year they said they got more backyard beeks than the commercial guys.

Also, one year does not make a trend. What happened last year can be very different than this year. They've been doing this for about six years and their sample size is just now getting big enough that they can just start to draw some conclusions.

Garret, our losses are normally(?) around 30% so 50% was huge. This year I'm not hearing about a lot of loses here in California. Our drought is causing a few almond orchards to tear out trees. Plus the girls have been able to get out and collect pollen and nectar. We're seeing swarming here already.

Eastern US is a different story. They're under a severe cold and snow. I'm just starting to hear about hives starving that went into winter with 100+ pounds of honey.

Ron
WileyHunter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject:

I can see, at least partly, where the objection is. But then again, I'm not a huge fan of surveys in general, mainly because they are easily skewed to whatever viewpoint the publisher decides to expose. They tend to leave me questioning things more than they answer. For instance: How many 'commercial' vs 'hobbyists' were included? If it wasn't 50/50 why not? How many 'treatment' vs 'non treatment'? What about ALL of the varying degrees in between? What are they concluding is the cause of this great loss rate? Is there a greater rate of loss for any particular subset? How will this data be used? Especially the impact that it might have for the small scale, minimally intrusive caretakers?
CeeBee
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject:

Che Guebuddha wrote:
This survey is a joke Laughing
According to it;
- migratory beekeeping has less losses than backyard one
- beeks with less hives have larger loss than those with a few hundred hives

I mean how can we use precentage in this. Lets say I have 2 hives and one died making it 50% loss. Beek with 100 hives has 30 dead hives so 30% loss

So I have more loss than he/she has Laughing Laughing Laughing


I don't get what it is you're objecting to here. Indeed just to take one beekeeper with 1 loss from 2 hives doesn't make very good statistics for the loss rate being 50%. But I assume there was more than one beekeeper - probably lots. We have to deal in 'percentage', since using the absolute number of losses would depend on how many were in each group.

So (assumed) lots of people with just a few hives lost 50%, while lots of people with lots of hives lost 30%. What's wrong with that statement? Like much else in the survey, it's probably got a lot to do with those involved in large operations doing things fairly seriously, since loss of bees means loss of livelihood.
Gareth
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject:

In the UK, the BBKA winter loss survey asks all sorts of questions but not whether you treat. So we wouldn't be able to make a comparison at the national level.

However, some areas collect data at a local level and in places this shows that non treatment beekeepers have winter losses that are no higher than, and sometimes lower than, treatment beekeepers. This often causes the treaters to stop bothering.
Garret
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject:

One point that Dennis doesn't address is that migratory beekeepers break down their colonies several times a year so by the time they finish the circuit at the end of the season the colonies aren't even close to the original. In a sense they are rejuvenated.

The small scale stationary beekeepers are less inclined in rejuvenating their colonies being more incline in keeping there colonies growing to large populations for honey production.

My guess is there are many beekeepers that haven't yet clued into the health benefits of allowing their colonies to go through a brood interruption/brood break for rejuvenating.

If the 2012/13 winter was consider sever I wonder what will be said about this winter.
Bugscouter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject:

Gareth,

It does kinda take the wind out of the "You have to treat or you'll lose your colony" argument, doesn't it.

Ron
Gareth
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: 2012-2013 Winter Loss Survey Report

Bugscouter wrote:


2. No different is losses from "Treat" vs. "No Treat" methods.

Ron


That might be worth pondering. Smile
Che Guebuddha
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject:

This survey is a joke Laughing
According to it;
- migratory beekeeping has less losses than backyard one
- beeks with less hives have larger loss than those with a few hundred hives

I mean how can we use precentage in this. Lets say I have 2 hives and one died making it 50% loss. Beek with 100 hives has 30 dead hives so 30% loss

So I have more loss than he/she has Laughing Laughing Laughing


He also said that there must be something good with doing splits Laughing I thought this was a no brainer Laughing its called Brood Break.

This survey must drop % and adopt a different measurement system to be taken seriously.
Bugscouter
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:18 am    Post subject: 2012-2013 Winter Loss Survey Report

For those that are interested the first reports from last year's survey are coming out. Three points I took from this one:

1. 50% loss of US colonies last year.

2. No different is losses from "Treat" vs. "No Treat" methods.

3. Spliting increased survival rates.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCYv0aFvQQ&feature=youtu.be&a

Ron

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