Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[Justin]

I have just bought a small swarm from a chap somewhere near Sidmouth.
And am about to instal them in a new HTBH.
After inspecting the under tray I have found varroa mite and very small what I take to be wax beetles.
He did not seem to have studied the subject in much depth so they may not have come from the best kept of hives.
Is there a protocol to treat new bee's so as to minimise if not eradicate unwanted parasitic before I move them from the tempory hive into the new HTBH.
Much thanks .
Justin

[druidsgarden]

Following this with interest, I know what to do in a National but I'm keen to see how to handle it in a hTBH

[Justin]

[Barbara]

Hi Justin

I feel a little uncomfortable with this transaction. I assume the swarm has been hived in a temporary box for a short period before you acquired it? Has it drawn comb on the top bars it came with? Does it have a mated queen and brood, in which case it could more likely be described as a nuc. Is it in fact a swarm or a nuc made from a split.... this might explain a mite drop.

Generally speaking, you would not expect to pay for a swarm other than perhaps to offer petrol money or perhaps a gift in exchange. If it is already on top bars, then perhaps replacing those top bars would be appropriate too. But there are no laws governing this as far as I am aware and people can sell anything for whatever others are willing to pay.

I personally do not monitor for mites. My bees have been untreated for 6-7 years so I honestly would not know or possibly even care, if there was mite fall from a swarm. (Having said that, I would also not be taking money off people for them.) What I do know is that, if I hive them in my own apiary, they survive very well untreated.

You could do a sugar dusting if you are concerned about their level of varroa infestation. I'm not sure what the beetles are that you are seeing. We don't have small hive beetle here in the UK (yet) so whatever it is, I probably wouldn't worry too much about it.

For me, the ethos of this forum is self help and that is what I love about it. People volunteering their time and experience to help others for the good of bees. I would be sad to think that someone was using it for self gain, but that is just my personal opinion and not saying that is the case here as I don't know the full circumstances.

Good luck resolving your situation.

Barbara

[Justin]

Thank you Barbara.
I was going to dust them when I do the transfer.
But as there was very little traffic to start with I did not want to disturbed them so simply left them where the HTBH will be and have not inspected what frames he has left for me.
I had agreed to a swarm but as he thought it would take a hole year to form a full colony .knowing how fast a queen lays eggs that can not be right so his understanding of word definition may have inaccuracy's.
Every thing is finished, I thought it would take me an after noon but it ended up taking three days to get finished to an acceptable standard, roofed ,oiled and painted.
Just waiting for the stainless steel mesh to be delivered before I transfer.
I have been a security officer for over twenty years and my assessment of the chap is one of concern. I work as a professional and expect people to pay me well for my time so I extend this policy to the people I deal with.
If some one is will take a morning to box up a swarm and drive them to me I will happily pay them for the time and effort, But I expect them to communicate in a proper manner and use a common language of descriptive terms to describe what we are trading.
my other business is noble metal refinement and we can get quite picky about what we buy and how it is described.
Unfortunately this chap is defiantly in it for the money and honey not for the Bee.

[AugustC]

Hi Justin

I agree with Barbara (it is usually hard not to) one would not usually pay for a swarm. That said even the weakest swarms can recover and make good. I would give them a sugar dusting. Buy fondant icing sugar as the normal stuff contains anti-caking agents. The bees will probably be pleased of the feed. make sure you don't give them too much space when you put them in your top bar hive. Keep the entrance small too.

Some people are against feeding but initially it may be a good idea.
The recipe below is proven to be more effective and recovering colonies than commercially available feeds.

1:1 Bee Feed
Boil the kettle and let it go off the boil for a few minutes.
Pour over freshly picked nettles (100g per litre of water to be used)
Allow to steep for a few minutes then strain.
Add cane sugar (eg tate and lyle) 1kg per litre of water.
Mix until completely dissolved.
add lemon juice (1 teaspoon per litre of feed)
Using a litre of water and 1 kg of sugar makes about 1.5 litres of feed.
Add in at about 500mL at time in the evening. This gives them the chance to take the feed overnight so none is left to attract robbers/wasps during the day.

You can feed inside the hive, in a section not occupied by the bees, with a hole in the follower board and ensuring all top bars are in place.
You can use an old clean pasta sauce jar to make a contact feeder. Use a thin nail to make holes in the lid. Put in your syrup and invert onto something in the hive to hold it. These will take 500mL.
best of luck

[Justin]

Thank you for the advice.
I was thinking of using some fondant , but your recipe looks like it would contain much more nutrient.
I have not even started to look at papers on bee digestion, let alone what micro nutrient they need.
Thank you both for all your help.
J

[Justin]

I went to transfer the bee's today.
When I opened the polystyrene hive I was surprised to find it full of about seven frames.
With quite a healthy colony .
They had four queen cells cemented to a feature of the hive.
It was more work that I had anticipated, so I thought it best to take stock.
I can cut away the frames and screw Them to the topbars.
The cells are attached to the box,is it advisable to try to move them?
There seem's to be enough to split into two as they have queens in the hive already.
Any advice you might have would be most welcome.
Thanks
J

[AugustC]

honestly that far in I would consider leaving them until after they swarmed, hoping to catch the swarm OR split off the current queen and some brood, and leave in place for the foragers. Then move the box elsewhere to allow to requeen before tidying up.

Moving queen cells in the prepupa stage risks damaging them or chilling them. Ideally you wouldn't move them until they are about 13 days old.

Have you moved all the comb, brood, and bees in a hive now?
Were the queen cells capped? if so they have already swarmed anyway.

[Justin]

There may have been a small swarm last weekThey were a bit agitated at dusk then quieter by the next day.
I noticed someone catching a swarm down the road from me,but as I had been told I had a Nuc I did not think anything of it.The hive was working well.
Now I find queen cells already and a good sized colony I am a bit confused.
I have never searched for a Queen.
The chap was quite rude the last time we texted as he wanted his hive back so he could catch another swarm.I can not understand why you would want to catch another swarm if you already have a hive producing nuc's.
I will try and split the colony leave half in the tempory hive and find the Queen to transfer and mark.May have to buy the bloke a new polystyrene box for a quiet life.
Not a very easy introductory operation,but it should be interesting.
I was hoping to keep them quiet with the sugar treatment .but I can not do that until I find the queen.
The Goddess has found another way to keep my life interesting.lol

[catchercradle]

When I started, I got a nuc which I transferred to a national the following day. (This was before I had heard about top bar hives)

* weeks later they swarmed despite the fact that this was a new queen from a split. They had plenty of space at the time. Clearly these bees had not read the book. It may be that yours haven't either. This meant most of my first season was with two colonies rather than one. Since then, I have been catching swarms each year and slowly increasing. I don't treat varroa in either my top bar hives or my natinals but swarms do sometimes come with a level of infestation.

Dave

[Justin]

I moved the bees out of the tempory hive and into the new HTBH.
They had attached the brood to the inside of the ventilation duct so had to cut them out and hang using hair clips.
No neat way to go so just had to liberate them and hang as fast as I could.
dusted as much of the colony as possible.did not have the option to look for the queen,but the ones left outside moved on mass into the hive which was a good sign.
thank you for all your advice.
J