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Laying Workers Help!

 
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beegraham
Nurse Bee


Joined: 29 May 2016
Posts: 26
Location: Kenton, Devon, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Laying Workers Help! Reply with quote

I inspected and pictured this comb out of my top bar hive today. On zooming into the image its clear the cells have multiple new laid eggs and grubs that most likely are drones. I suspect the hive to now be queenless. Is it possible to introduce a bought in queen.
[img]https://goo.gl/photos/qqv3vF9rEE2Cf7zg9[/img]
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Adriaan
Guard Bee


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 79
Location: central Belgium

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Beegraham,

Although I was unable to view the picture, I think it is of no use to try and save this collony. Laying workers and their brood produce queen feromones, so the collony does not consider itselves to be queenless.

Laying workers produce att max about 30 eggs each. One laying worker just lays 1 egg in a cell and the multiple eggs per cell means multiple laying workers. So the picture you discribe indicates a vast amount of laying workers.

IMHO this collony is doomed. Contrary to popular belief, laying workers can fly and find their way back if shaken off.

Even if the collony fails, the large amount of drones may contribute to the gene pool (providing you practice open mating on your apiary) so not all is lost.

friendly greetings

Adriaan
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AndyC
Scout Bee


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 272
Location: Uk/Horsham/RH13

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you still have sealed brood in the hive can you not make a split using be sealed brood frames and it the bees on them and introduce a new queen to it?

PS
I've not come across this laying worker thing myself.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not had much luck in sorting out a hive that has got to the stage where the workers are laying even with a shake out.

The drones are no good either as they are diploid drones from laying workers and eventually the size diminishes and they become dwarf drones...the bees are trying to do something but the process is not finished I suppose.

A
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Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1545
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have not had success with shaking out and requeening. I think the best situation may be to remove the hive to a distant location and place a healthy hive at the old location, so that the foragers will return to the old site and boost the other hive population. The laying workers should stay with their brood and die out. Of course there will be some workers left with them but hopefully most will reorientate to the new colony at the old site.
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Adriaan
Guard Bee


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 79
Location: central Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@andy pearce

Drones from laying workers are haploid just like drones from eggs layed by the queen.
Diploid drones only form when a fertilized egg is homozygous on the complementary sex determiner (csd) gene on chromosome 3. These drones will not develop as the larvae are eaten by workers just after hatching resulting in a shot brood pattern.

friendly greetings

Adriaan
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