View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
wuertele House Bee
Joined: 29 Jan 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Menlo Park, CA
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance |
|
|
The goal of mesh floors is to pass Varroa but not bees. Therefore we need a hole size bigger than a mite and smaller than a bee.
For the sake of argument, let's hypothesize that a 3mm x 3mm square opening is the biggest opening we can tolerate. What then would be the optimum wire gauge?
My local supplier of hardware cloth lists the following combinations, all with 3mm x 3mm square openings:
34 gauge (.0063" dia) => 8 mesh (eight openings per linear inch)
27 gauge (.0142" dia) => 7.5 mesh
22 gauge (.0253" dia) => 7 mesh
19 gauge (.0359" dia) => 6.5 mesh
17 gauge (.0453" dia) => 6 mesh
...
7 gauge (.1443" dia) => 3.75 mesh
Under my mesh floor, I will have a closed wooden space with removable panel, so I do not need the mesh to be strong enough to keep out large pests.
Does the diameter of the wire affect the ability of bees to walk on it, the ability of mites to catch themselves on it, or the propensity of bees to propolize it?
Seems to me that hole size being equal, a skinnier wire would be harder for mites to catch, and more difficult for bees to propolize. But it seems that it might be harder for the bees to walk on.
I'm I overthinking this? The answer is yes. But this is my hobby, and obsessing over details is how I enjoy my hobby! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Gareth Wise Bee

Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 3060 Location: UK, England, Cotswolds
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance |
|
|
wuertele wrote: |
I'm I overthinking this? The answer is yes. But this is my hobby, and obsessing over details is how I enjoy my hobby! |
Welcome.
If you like thinking things through, there is a simple thought experiment that one can try. Imagine a varroa 'slipping' off a bee. The bee is in a seam of bees between the combs. For all but the lowermost bees, the thing that the varroa lands on will be another bee. Which suggests that the only varroa that get to the mesh are those that 'slip' off bees right at the bottom of the brood nest.
I say 'slip' in quotes because varroa do not accidentally loose their grip. They are remarkably difficult to dislodge. If you look at the varroa on the floor with a high power lens or a microscope, they are frequently damaged. I suspect even the ones that look OK are not viable.
I gave up all mesh in my hives when I went treatment-free. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
trekmate Golden Bee

Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Posts: 1137 Location: UK, North Yorkshire, Bentham
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance |
|
|
Gareth wrote: |
I gave up all mesh in my hives when I went treatment-free. |
Gareth - is that with a removable inspection tray, open bottom or solid floor?
John |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wuertele House Bee
Joined: 29 Jan 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Menlo Park, CA
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance |
|
|
Gareth wrote: | The bee is in a seam of bees between the combs. For all but the lowermost bees, the thing that the varroa lands on will be another bee. Which suggests that the only varroa that get to the mesh are those that 'slip' off bees right at the bottom of the brood nest. | I have always been surprised that more people don't bring up this point. it makes sense to me. But I want to leave myself the option to treat. I understand that treatment defeats natural selection, but I have already gone a long way down that road just by building a box, and I like the simplicity of the sugar treatment.
I guess that sugared mites probably can't grab hold of wire no matter the size. But does wire size affect bees ability to use it to walk on or whatever they do on the floor? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
biobee Site Admin

Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1063 Location: UK, England, S. Devon
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bees spend very little time on the floor, whatever it is made from. They don't need horizontal surfaces to walk comfortably, as we do.
To understand bees, you must learn to think like a bee.
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
ronald_stuffleb New Bee
Joined: 13 Feb 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Missoula, Montana (zone 4)
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: A published paper that may be of some help to you |
|
|
Google
Experimentation of an Anti-Varroa Screened Bottom Board in the Context of Developing an Integrated Pest Management Strategy for Varroa Infested Honeybees in the Province of Quebec |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Gareth Wise Bee

Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 3060 Location: UK, England, Cotswolds
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance |
|
|
trekmate wrote: | Gareth wrote: |
I gave up all mesh in my hives when I went treatment-free. |
Gareth - is that with a removable inspection tray, open bottom or solid floor?
John |
Solid floor. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wuertele House Bee
Joined: 29 Jan 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Menlo Park, CA
|
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: A published paper that may be of some help to you |
|
|
ronald_stuffleb wrote: | Google Experimentation of an Anti-Varroa Screened Bottom Board in the Context of Developing an Integrated Pest Management Strategy for Varroa Infested Honeybees in the Province of Quebec |
Just did this, and read the paper that was the first link. They did not vary wire diameter, so I don't believe the paper addresses the question in my original post. There seems to have a typo in the paper, it says Chapleau wrote: | .32 mm (1/8") screen mesh | which probably should read "3.2mm", but in any case this does not specify either the hole size or the wire size.
I also read several of the links that refer to the paper, including the biobees thread. There was no mention of wire diameter anywhere. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
biobee Site Admin

Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1063 Location: UK, England, S. Devon
|
Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: Re: A published paper that may be of some help to you |
|
|
wuertele wrote: |
I also read several of the links that refer to the paper, including the biobees thread. There was no mention of wire diameter anywhere. |
That's because what matters is the space between the wires, rather than the wires themselves. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
wuertele House Bee
Joined: 29 Jan 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Menlo Park, CA
|
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: Re: A published paper that may be of some help to you |
|
|
biobee wrote: | wuertele wrote: |
I also read several of the links that refer to the paper, including the biobees thread. There was no mention of wire diameter anywhere. |
That's because what matters is the space between the wires, rather than the wires themselves. |
Perhaps. I can certainly imagine scenarios where the gage of wire makes a difference. For example, if the holes were 3mm wide and the wire was 30mm in diameter (i.e. the wire was ten times the diameter of the hole), I would be surprised if the gage of the wire were not significant.
But I have my answer, and it is "nobody knows". Maybe someday I'll be able to do an experiment. Meanwhile I think I'll just go with the thinnest gage I can find. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Quality Top Bar Hives by Andrew Vidler
|
Conserving wild bees
Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.
Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.
There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here
More about bumblebees and solitary bees here
Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)
|
|
Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast
|
|
|
|
4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com
|
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group
View topic - Varroa mesh wire gauge relevance - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum
|
|