Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[msscha]

I've purchased shellac (pre-made but all natural ingredients), denatured alchohol, and 1 oz propolis chunks. I want to put a thin coat of a propolis-shellac mix on the inside of the hive, but cannot find how much alcohol to use for melting the propolis or what the ratio of that mixture to the shellac should be. I've search for this several times on the forum and in the Barefoot Beekeeping book, and find lots of mention, but no exact formulas. My plan is to dissolve the propolis in the denatured alcohol, and mix that with the shellac. Does that sound about right?

Thank you!

[msscha]

According to the technical data bulletin, the manufacturers recommend thinning in the following proportions:
-- I'm not sure what the "lbs to lbs" actually means -- can I interpret this as a straightforward ratio of parts?

[biobee]

It matters very little what dilution you use. If you make it very runny, you just end up using more alcohol that necessary and having to apply many coats to make a seal. It is a reversible 'reaction' - a physical change, rather than a chemical change - so you can remove shellac if necessary with alcohol at any time.

I add 250 grams of shallac flakes to 500 ml of alcohol, give it a good stir, let is 'soak' overnight, then stir in about another 500 ml, which seems about right to me.

Don't worry about it - just apply evenly and let the alcohol evaporate.

[msscha]

Thank you, Phil.

[R Payne]

Phil is right that the lb cut isn't important.
But if you want to know what the lbs to lbs means it is a reference to how much shellac is dissolved in a gallon (not sure whose gallon originally). A 1 lb cut was made by dissolving 1 pound of shellac in a gallon of alcohol. So the 3 lb to 2 lb is how you would dilute a solution that started as 3 pounds of shellac dissolve in one gallon of alcohol to a solution that is the equivalent concentration of 2 pounds of shellac dissolved in one gallon of alcohol.
Generally speaking (in the U.S.), premixed shellac is a 3 lb cut. This is thick enough it can be difficult to get a nice, pretty finish on woodwork so is frequently diluted.

[Swing Swang]

Just out of interest - why the desire to varnish the inside of a hive with propalis and/or shellac, or anything else for that matter, when given a season the bees will do it for you?

[msscha]

It was a suggestion made to increase condensation and provide the first bit of propolis-driven goodness to the hive. Not everyone agrees -- in this article by Marla Spivak, she recommends NOT doing any part of this work on behalf of the hive -- http://www.beelab.umn.edu/prod/groups/cfans/@pub/@cfans/@bees/documents/article/cfans_article_435997.pdf Phil Chandler has been experimenting otherwise.

[WileyHunter]

Edited: fixed original post...

[biobee]

[msscha]

Thanks for posting that copy, Phil. I downloaded the version from Cornell and sent it to my Kindle, and for some reason, the pdf has dropped letters all over the place. Not sure if it is the Kindle or something bizarre my computer did!

[msscha]

[Swing Swang]

Thanks for the link Phil

[biobee]

You're welcome. I wish all beekeepers would read this.

BTW - I buy shellac as flakes on ebay - easy to dissolve.

[biobee]

I must admit that I mostly don't measure quantities, but simply stir in the shellac until it reaches a consistency that is similar to thin paint. It really doesn't matter, as the alcohol evaporates quickly and disappears.

Probably best applied in a well-ventilated room, or outdoors. And well away from naked flames...

[EbrgNBC]

Following up on this thread -- what type of shellac flakes are you purchasing, waxed (hydraulically filtered; aka "buttonlac") or dewaxed (dissolved in alcohol, then filtered/dried/pressed into sheets)?

Thanks,
- Barb

[quote="biobee"]It matters very little what dilution you use. If you make it very runny, you just end up using more alcohol that necessary and having to apply many coats to make a seal. It is a reversible 'reaction' - a physical change, rather than a chemical change - so you can remove shellac if necessary with alcohol at any time.

I add 250 grams of shallac flakes to 500 ml of alcohol, give it a good stir, let is 'soak' overnight, then stir in about another 500 ml, which seems about right to me.

Don't worry about it - just apply evenly and let the alcohol evaporate.[/quote]

[MikeRobinson]

(Also following-up on this thread ...) "Does it actually matter?"

I treated the outside of my hives with Thompson's Water Seal, and did absolutely nothing on the inside. Three years later, the hives are doing just fine.

Quite honestly, I might suggest that it is possible to "over-think this thing." After all, in the wild, honeybees thrive in hollow trees.

[AlanT]

I have just read Constructive Beekeeping. It goes opposite of everything I have always heard about condensation in the hive. I have always been taught that condensation was the bees worst enemy and that hives should be well ventilated, especially in the winter. I noticed immediately that Phil Chandler uses solid sheets of reflective insulation instead of traditional ventilated top boards.
Has anyone noticed that reducing ventilation has an effect on varroa mites? Varroa mites are supposed to be inhibited by high humidity according the the following paragraph from Zachary Huang's article on varroa mite reproductive biology.

D. Effect of Humidity
Kraus and Velthuis (1997) wondered why varroa mites were not as big a problem in the tropics (besides that fact that most bees were African), and tested in the laboratory to see if high relative humidity would inhibit mite reproduction. They artificially transferred single mites into newly capped cells, and then kept the brood in an incubator. When relative humidity (RH) was set at 59–68%, on average, 53% of the mites produced offspring (N=174 mites); under 79–85% RH, only 2% (N = 127) of the mites reproduced. The difference in mite fertility was highly significant. My postdoctor recently incorrectly set the incubator at a RH of 75% (instead of 50%), and very few mites reproduced as a result. If there are ways to artificially increase the hive RH to about 80%, then the varroa mite population will never increase to a damaging level.