Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[BBC]

In my search for more information about the Die Bienenkiste hive I've accumulated quite a few German YouTube videos about beekeeping in that country, which I've found extremely interesting - despite not knowing more than half a dozen words of German !

I get the distinct impression that there's a more sympathetic attitude to beekeeping over there, and that there's a wealth of information that could be passed on with the help of an interpreter ...

Here's a few to whet your appetite:

Bienen
Die Bienenkiste Einsatz der Anfangsstreifen
Frankenschau Aktuell Bienenkiste
Die Bienenkiste im Fruehjahr
Bienenkiste Durchlenzung
Honigernte in der Bienenkiste
Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 1
Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 2
Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 3
Die Bienenkiste Winterfursorge
Bienenkiste Mittelwaende im Honigraum einsetzen

A YouTube search will locate these, but note that I've had to alter those characters with twin dots above to make 'em viewable.

The 3-part series is of a commercial operation, and in the last video there's a rather neat tip for ensuring that a Queen is accepted into a new NUC.

Colin
BBC

[zaunreiter]

This is the main page: http://www.bienenkiste.de

If you need any help with the translation, just pm me.

[zaunreiter]

See video of a harvest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0BdO2xpW9Y

(by a beginner beekeeper)

[biobee]

I am intrigued by these hives, but I can't entirely figure out exactly how they are constructed.

I also have one concern - doesn't turning the comb almost upside down result in a lot of nectar running out of the combs?

The building instructions here - http://www.bienenkiste.de/doku/bauanleitung/zusammenbau/index.html

when translated through Google produce impenetrable instructions such as:

(If you could get shorter keeper, the keeper can of course be screwed directly into the narrow side of the floorboard to (S5) and a bending, or screwing in the state last is of course not necessary.)

[zaunreiter]

[biobee]

Thanks Bernhard.

Do you have/know of any photos that explain how the removable top bars are held in place?
I can see that there is a castellated component that keeps them spaced correctly - does this also hold the bars against the roof? And the same arrangement at the other end?

[zaunreiter]

This sketch pretty much explains it:

http://www.bienenkiste.de/images/print/innenausbau-vorne.gif
http://www.bienenkiste.de/doku/bauanleitung/innenausbau/index.html

I coloured it and marked it a little:



Rail 1 is fixed to the front board, screwed from the inside to the wall. Rail 2 is double-sided, with a noose left and right. One side to hold the topbars of the brood area, the other side to hold the honey combs or the divider board. There is another rail on the far right side where the back entrance is to hold the honey comb topbars in place. That rail looks similiar to rail 2, with one nose/rebate only.

Rail 2 is screwed from the outside, so if you want to remove the brood bars, you stand up the hive, unscrew the rail 2 from the outside and lift out one comb after the other.

Hope that helps,

Bernhard

[zaunreiter]

Some thoughts and ideas concerning the Bienenkiste (bee box)...

First of all, I'd make the topbars of both brood and honey section the same length. Thus combs can be swapped between the sections. So the box is divided in half.

As a divider, I'd used a fixated queen excluder, permanently in place.

Both end boards would be movable and rebated.




Two entrances at the sides:



I also would make a triangular stand and an axis at the roof of the hive. I think I'd double up the roof board with a space in between. This would protect from direct sun as well. (Not shown in picture.)

Free swinging the hive can be turned upside down more easily. Secured with a chain or something to hold it in place. (One side is heavier than the other. With a chain or bar it can be tied/hold into place.)



The hive gets populated on one side of the hive.



Within the first season the one side should be filled easily. Only the entrance on this side is open.



Next spring right when the main flow starts at the beginning of May, the queen is caught and put with one brood comb on the other side of the hive. Entrance on this side is opened a couple of days later, when things settled in this side of the hive.



The bees start drawing new comb where the brood is. The brood in the comb on the other side hatches and because no eggs are layed there, they soon get filled with incoming nectar.

Once combs are filled, they are removed and again the queen is put on the other side of the hive for the next flow.



So that is how I would use that sort of hive.

[biobee]

Thanks again, Bernhard. Something else to dream about...

[zaunreiter]

Well, I said...would...personally I don't see any advantage in using such a hive. I think a regular TBH might be better off.


While we are dreaming...do you know the stairway-to-heaven-TBH? Here it is...

http://mylocalbees.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/beehive-7.jpg

[biobee]

Now that's.... mad.

I can see what they have in mind - starting bees at the top and backfilling all the way down, I presume.

Has anyone tried one for more than a year?

[zaunreiter]

No idea, just was pointed to it in a forum. They also could be started in the middle and instead of supering growing upwards...

Well, yes. Beekeepers seem to be inventive of some sort.

[BBC]

There are two features about the Bienenkiste which I like very much:
the first is the Queen Excluder - no need to cause difficulty for, or damage to any of the bees by requiring them to squeeze through tight openings - just a partial partition which effectively prevents Her Majesty from straying away from the brood area. Nice. I'm sure that feature could translate across to other designs, if a restriction of the Queen's movements should be high on the agenda.

But it's the second feature which really excites me - unlike all other long hives, the Bienenkiste has the combs arranged longitudinally along the cavity, just as would normally occur in a feral hive, which of course allows the cluster to migrate back and forth along the comb array without encountering obstacles. I see the ability to migrate along combs easily as being one of the major strengths of the vertical hive configuration, and I'd like to see this ease of mobility incorporated into a more 'conventional' horizontal hive.

So - what my thinking is (or rather 'was', as I've put this on the back burner for the winter) - is to build a Bienenkiste with a removable top, rather than the classic removable bottom. This - in effect - then becomes a T-TBH with the bars arranged lengthways, rather than across the box.

As I see it, the challenge is then two-fold: how best to support the 2 sets of Bars where they meet, and how to fit the removeable partition at that point - and secondly, how best to manage the hive in terms of day-to-day operations.
I've played with several methods of support, with and without a slot for the partition board, and I don't see that as presenting a problem. But with regard to managing the hive itself ... I can't see any solution to this. The beauty of the classic Top Bar hive lies in the ability to move it's Bars at will - expanding and contracting the size of the cavity as required. But I cannot immediately see how that could be done with a longitudinal Comb configuration.

Much to think about there - but I'd like to think it could be done.

Colin
BBC

[KMP]

[KMP]

[KMP]

[BBC]

I came across the Anton Janscha hive (again !) in a recent YouTube video I found, which was of course based on the Farmer's, Bauer or Peasant stocks - depending on which history book you read - and on which the Bienenkiste hive was apparently based.

So - I'll be knocking-up something later this year which will no doubt turn out to be a hybrid of one or more of these designs - i.e. an upside-down long hive of dimensions yet to be determined ...

Anyway - the point of this post is - when I re-visited this thread I noticed that I didn't include any YouTube links for the videos I mentioned in the OP. Dunno why - must have been tippling mead on that day

But (somewhat belatedly) here they are:

Bienenkiste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OER5Xz06sCc

Die Bienenkiste Einsatz der Anfangsstreifen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LodRbe5YBz4

Frankenschau Aktuell Bienenkiste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LczHs3tV48

Die Bienenkiste im Fruehjahr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSTYMcoW8GU

Bienenkiste Durchlenzung
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqroVr7tbsY

Honigernte in der Bienenkiste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9ITefVZAIA

Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K067_JWDMjM

Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHQTt17MAmI

Bienen - Ein Volk und seine Konigin 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygS8m20ROQ4

Die Bienenkiste Winterfursorge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRagEHyTD4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1z5TIg-ixs

Bienenkiste Mittelwaende im Honigraum einsetzen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3KmYgEr00M


Incidently - if you want to save YouTube videos for viewing later, I use SaveFromNet - it's pretty good:

http://en.savefrom.net/1-how-to-download-youtube-video/

Colin
BBC

[KMP]

Hello Colin,

I just wanted to add a note that I am in the process of translating the Bienenkiste Web site (source of the videos) into English. The raw translations can be found in the Bienenkiste English-language sub-forum.

(Just type or paste "bienenkiste trans-proj" into Google.)


Sincerely,

Kevin Pfeiffer

P.S. Almost two years later, my two hives are still doing well in our Berlin rooftop garden.

[BBC]