Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[nannybee]

I have two tbhs - one with a mesh floor and a moveable bottom board and one with a deep floor filed with leaf litter, compost and wood shavings. The latter has had bees in it since the beginning of April and they are doing well. Both hives have insulation under their roofs (pillow cases filled with shavings).
Since we have been having (unusually!) warm, sunny, dry weather this month (it's about 24C in my garden and the hives are in the sun and facing south, although the roof shades the faces) I've noticed that the bees in the deep floor hive have been 'sitting' over the face of the hive above the entrances when they first come out, with their abdomens up and pumping up and down. After a while, they either fly off as usual or go back in. The other hive (which has the bottom board lowered by about 1cm) doesn't show this at all. They aren't bearding, since they just spread over the wood in one layer.
Is this because they are too hot? And if so, should I lower the deep floor onto its catches for a while? Or are the bees just doing what is needed and don't need me to upset things?

[Che Guebuddha]

Google washboarding

[nannybee]

That's it ! I wonder why only the deep floor hive shows this? Or why at all, come to that. There is a nice explanation by someone on the Youtube video, which appeals to me as an ex-headteacher, that it's 'punishment for improper inside behavior ... these kids are sent outside to clean the entry face with their spit and tiny toothbrushes ...'

[MilanBencúr]

Just today. Photos show Warre hive in the hive, which is sitting part three 285 mm deep. Horizontal hive, the JU-Czechoslovaks frame 30 cm high. It is this year's swarm on the 15th frame. Bees basking in the sun on the beach as the Adriatic. Daytime temperature of 32 ° C. Weight has been stagnant for several days. What they bring bees, consume it. Are holidays. Daily Varroa natural inclination is zero. Comfort, relax, baccy,

[Swing Swang]

One of my Warres is looking just the same too.

[Swing Swang]

One of my Warre's is looking just the same too.

[MikeRobinson]

I think that this is just normal summertime "bearding."

FYI, my hives have closed bottoms and no observation windows. I think that bees are expecting to live in enclosed wooden spaces whose environment they can regulate. If the bottom is open, for whatever good-sounding reason, my "take" is that they can no longer do that. The space is now "one with the outside world," and when any breeze blows past it, all the climate-control will be blown away. Not so good, I think.

[madasafish]

In summer - when hot - I remove all bottom boards, Bees stop bearding then.

If open air was so bad for bees - in summer - they would surely not fan or beard?

Rest of the year, bottom boards in. (OMFs)

I have some hives with the sides extend 10cm below the mesh floor## and here the boards can stay in: the extra depth of air at the bottom gives better summer cooling. So bottom boards stay in all the time.

## my rejigging of design based on experience.

[Adam Rose]

My bees on outside of hive. http://youtu.be/oar9z8ofMUQ. They look perfectly happy to me and I see no need for any intervention. I don't think they are washboarding or even bearding particularly, just doing their thing in the shade on the outside of the hive.

[Jon B]

[Barbara]

Wow! Adam, is that one of my swarms?
Find it hard to believe they have that many bees to spare for lounging around on the front porch, already. Can you tell if they have built much more comb?
They certainly look to be strong enough, I just hope they don't swarm like Steve's did.

I'm not seeing any behaviour like this with any of my hives (conventional or TBH) and they are almost all in full sun with solid or deep litter floors and it's been pretty hot here.

[stevecook172001]

I wonder if that black plastic roof cover is sucking in heat? An easy way to test that would be to temporarily place a white board on top for a day and see if there is any difference in the amount of bees hanging about outside.

[Adam Rose]

[Adam Rose]

[Adam Rose]

[Barbara]

Thanks for that Adam. I did think it was a rather surprising growth for one of mine! Good to see some footage of them too though. Slow and steady progress is not a bad thing.

It is very interesting to hear that the wild colony in the tree are exhibiting the same behaviour. Not sure I am following your point about the entrance being shaded. Are you saying they seem happier with their entrance in shade rather than sun? I have always faced mine S - SW in full sun because it takes so long for the sun to come up over the horizon here with being in the bottom of a steep valley. The 3 times that I have put a colony in shade, still with entrances S-SW though, they were never happy (bad tempered) and didn't thrive even though they were only 40-50yards away, so I've stuck with their current position since then, which is much closer to the house, but altogether pleasanter to live next to.

[Adam Rose]

I don't think it's so much to do with which direction they face, but whether or not there is localised shade over the entrance in the middle of the day.

I have two TBH's in my garden. One has end-entrances which point due South. The other has side entrances and the entrances point more or less to the West. [ The hive bodies are both North / South, meaning the entrances are at 90 degrees to each other, if you see what I mean ].

In the busiest period from 11am until 2pm, the South facing one doesn't have much "outside the hive activity" but the West facing one does. I attribute this partly due to the shade over the slopping side entrance, which is a combination of the sun being in the south in the middle of the day and the slope of the side wall ( and some trees behind ) providing a bit of shade.

I think you could reproduce this effect just by providing a 1 ft sun shelter attached to and overhanging the roof. I'm not saying you should - I doubt if the bees care either way - but you could.

[Barbara]

Ok, thanks for expanding on that. I might have a bit experiment with it to see if I can create the shade and if it changes their behaviour. It's interesting even if it we don't know if it's beneficial or not.

[Barbara]

Well, I didn't get chance to experiment but I had completely forgotten that one of my hives faces east and the entrance is now in shade and that whole side of the hive is covered in bees 3 or 4 deep at the top. It just looks like a massive swarm covering that side. Don't know if it has been happening every day in the early evening as that side faces away from the house, but it is really quite extraordinary to see. Like ivy on the front of a cottage.

That hive is actually a 10 bar TBH nuc. I checked them last night and they were all inside busy making honey from the noise emanating from it. Maybe it is shift changeover or bait time and the workers are all having half an hours chill before the night shift starts. They do look very relaxed and contented, so I understand what you are saying about it not being an issue, as such.
Out of the cluster of hives, it is the only one with the entrance in shade and the only one that is doing it.

[MikeRobinson]

I definitely think that there's such a thing as "over-thinking" and "second guessing," but it is at-least worth considering that, by removing the bottom of their hive enclosure, so that it's not an "enclosure" anymore, you opened the entire colony to a potential path for invasion which they now can't close up. They're now, in effect, a colony in a tree, but very close to the ground. You perceive the result that you hoped and intended to see, but maybe not from the bee's perspective?