Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[Carlos of the woods]

I am interested in building myself a TBH.. So I went down to my local timber merchant.. when I said I would like 38mm x 20-25mm lumber prepared or rough sawn - he said that isn't really a standard measurement.. or rather after prep 38x25mm comes out as 33mm x 20mm ..

I have checked the B&Q website (as nearest one is a bit of a distance), and they do sell 38mm x 25mm (but say they are out of stock from my local stores) I wondered if anyone else had used B&Q's stuff - and if it is really 38mm wide, or if that is before it is prep'd?

I don't have access to table saw - and ideally would like to be as efficient with my timber as poss.. so buying the TB's at good width seems fairly key by what i've read.

thanks

[stevecook172001]

Jewsons do 9" by 1" rough sawn untreated planks. They also do "2 by 9" planks of the same type. They are way cheaper than BnQ. I used the 2" by 9" to make my Warre hive. But, if I was to make a HTBH, I would use the 1" by 9" You'd need to treat the outside of them, though, cos they are just white softwood. Probably Russian pine or suchlike. And then treat the inside with natural shellac. Or, at least I did in my Warre.

[Carlos of the woods]

hi thanks for the reply..

its really only being able to source the top bars at 38mm wide - if that is what is thought to be ideal for italian bee brood width... I'm presuming that when people talk of 38mm it is actually 38mm.. and not 38mm prep'd timber.. which will always come down to 33-35mm in reality.

the other bits the timber merchant have good fairly cheap stuff..

[biobee]

I have bought planed 38mm x22 (I think) from B&Q before - and it was REAL 38mm (rather than nominal) but I haven't been able to find it in there lately. I cut my last bars down from (real) 63 x 38mm but that was a job lot and again, haven't seen it since.

Sawmills vary in their ability to measure stuff, I find - you have to train them! Make sure you specify the FINISHED size, AFTER PLANING (if you want it planed) and preferably IN WRITING so there are no arguments.

[stevecook172001]

Is 38mm the width and 22mm the depth Phil? If it is, then I am guessing the 22mm is less critical right? If so, there is plenty of rough-sawn battening wood available that is cut to 1" thick (25.4mm). Couldn't that be rip-cut down to strips of 38mm wide and then cross-cut to the requisite lengths?

[Dexter's shed]

when I made mine, I used slaters battern, 19mm x 38mm worked fine

http://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/browse/pitched-roofing/roof-battenstimbers.html

[madasafish]

B&Q sell 38x19 bundles of 8 or 24: I use them as top bars..


http://tinyurl.com/mddxzvh
http://tinyurl.com/mtj2ssz

[Carlos of the woods]

thanks for input and clarity on this all..

my local timber merchants do 38 x 100 sawn timber.. so if I can borrow a table saw I can rip them into quarters.. that'll be cheapest i reckon..

but B&Q look a good bet if not..

Dexter - that link shows 'treated' 19mm x38mm slaters battern... surely not good to use treated stuff? .. maybe they do untreated too..

just got to find an excuse to build a hive now

[Dexter's shed]

[stevecook172001]

[mefgbee]

Wickes do 38mm timber too in 2.4m individual lengths. I think the width was 63mm, so after running a saw down it, you'd have 38x30. By the time you've planed your sawn edge(!) you'll be close to what you need.

[biobee]

[CeeBee]

[madasafish]

I use 38mm through every hive. No issues.

For comb guides, I cut a 38,mm bar down the middle so it is 19x19. And then cut along teh diagonal to give a triangular comb guide.

Simple.

(I use a jig saw with the bar held in a vice so the diagonal is vertical.)

It may produce some wavy comb guides but neither I nor the bees car and it works.

I just glue the guide to the topbar using a fast setting wood glue.. PU or No More nails or similar..

[MikeRobinson]

I simply set up a table-saw to the desired width and ran bar after bar through it. If width matters tremendously, I haven't personally witnessed that.

I made my bars with a saw-kerf down the middle, half a popsicle-stick deep, into which I glued wooden popsicle sticks with white glue.

And, along the way, I hit-upon the idea of doing one more saw-kerf cut, perpendicular to the bar and on one end only, where the pointed edge of the sloping side-panel naturally will fit when the bar is properly centered. Presto, the bars now quite-naturally line up when you put them back: just slide them back and forth until the side-wall board clicks into the little slot. Very handy. (It was to no advantage to kerf both ends of the bar.)

[annao]

Hello,
I’m trying to build a TBH following the Phil’s manual. In the first version the width of the bars was 35 mm, in the second one is 38 mm. Why? I can easily find 37 x 27 mm battens. Do you think they can work?

[AugustC]

it really depends on the bees and even then once you're outside the brood area all bets are off. Honey combs can get upto 50mm.

Some bees are happy with 36mm (or sometimes even 34mm). If they haven't fully regressed though they may struggle and start to "drift" after a period of time. Many on this forum have moved to 38mm and this seems to be a fairly good catchall with very little trouble.

I do a number of people go for much thinner bars and then have various shim sizes so they can balance them out depending on the colony needs.

As for timber. You can get 50mm by 38mm and cut them long ways for twice the number of bars.

[Barbara]

If 37mm is easily obtainable I would go for that. Do measure it before you buy though as sometimes, particularly with dressed wood, the actual size is quite a bit less than advertised. Make sure to use good comb guides on them and have some thin strips/shims on hand to pack out any bars where the comb is starting to overlap, as Andy says, particularly for the honey area. 4mm and 8mm are useful but whatever you can easily lay hands on.

I have bars of varying widths in my latest TBH. I made them from reclaimed panelling and just cut them to whatever width I could salvage the most out of each piece, so they range from 31 to 40mm. I marked on the end of each bar what width it is, so I can easily move a wider one in next to a narrow one if things are getting off line. I plan to have the narrowest ones in the centre of the brood nest.... but the bees will probably have a different idea. I'm not suggesting other people should do that as it overly complicates things, it's just that I needed to get as many bars out of the timber I had and of course I like making things difficult for myself!
My point is, don't worry too much about the width of the bars because the bees won't. If things start running off, be prepared with some shims, but brood nest wise I think 37mm will be absolutely fine.... honey storage is anybody's guess.

Oh and welcome to the forum!

Best wishes

Barbara

[annao]

Thank you very much AugustC and Barbara !!
I try to do like you suggest, I don't worry about width and I prepare with some shims...