Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[Adriaan]

I recently joined 'de limburgse zwarte bij' a new group of beekeepers dedicated to the conservation of our native black bee here in Belgium.
As there are no pure black bees colonies left in 'Limburg' pure A.m.m. queens from the breeding station at 'Chimay' in southern Belgium are introduced.

All over Europe pockets of pure black bees have survived.

I would like your opinion on the idea to establisch new populations of black bees in places where they disapeared using stock from very different origin say: Norway, Ireland and Switserland to create a pan-european black bee.

kind regards

Adriaan

[ingo50]

Adriaan what exactly do you mean by a Pan- European bee? I think you would have to be very careful around where you obtained your black bees from. Norwegian bees may not be adapted to your local climate. Many of our current problems have been created by imported bees, eg Varroa etc. How will you keep the black bees pure without keeping them in an isolated area, as they may well mate with other drones. Such a project would need careful planning.

[madasafish]

Spanish black bees are reputed to be extremely aggressive.

There is NO such thing as a "European" Black Bee - there are lots of differences.

[Adriaan]

Madasafish, the spanish black bee is a different subspecies (A.melifera iberiensis) then the european black bee (A. melifera melifera) and it is not included in this thought experiment.

Orginally the european black bee had its home range from southern France to mid scandinavia and from Ireland to the Ural mountains in Russia. The largest geografical range of all the 28 subspecies of western honeybee.

Locally adapted ecotypes (populations) exist and they used to be connected by decent and by gene flow.
The gene flow between the pure A.m.m. populations has now stopped because of introduction of Italian and carnolean bees.

By a pan-european black bee I mean a european black bee created with genetic material from different corners of the continent thus making the most of the genetic diversity that still exists.

maintaining purity has its problems (this is the same for those of us who want pure breed italians, carnoleans or buckfast bees).

Two main methodes are available

1 geografical isolation (mating station on an island);
2 artificial insemination.

A third option might be; restricted flight time mating or moonshine mating.
This methode is developed by Horner in Australia. You keep the virgin queens in their mating nukes in a cool dark place during the day and in the evening about an hour after the last drone in your apiary has flown in, you take the nukes outside and release the queens. At the same time you release the specially selected drones from their hives and controlled mating in free flight can take place.
You have to repeat this process for several weeks until succes (placing the nukes on the same spot every time.
And you might want to ask other beekeepers in the neighbourhood if the are not doing the same thing with their buckfast bees.

All of this is not very natural and its is much easier to continue keeping hybrid bees (we call them streetbees in Holland).

kind regards,

Adriaan

[andy pearce]

I think it is a good idea. I have said it many times on this forum.

There are lots of good reasons for doing this including the fact that these bees do well in places with fluctuating weather conditions, will fly in low temperatures, stop laying in winter and so on.

Two years ago it snowed in April where I used to live...my near black bees came through it and the Italian (ligustica) bees in the next apiary all died. I am not saying that this was the only factor that killed them because we all know when looking at bees the variables are huge.

My bees are no longer Amm because of importation by bee keepers around me. That is going to be your problem .....maintaining Amm in a sea of other sub species and hybrids.

There is a UK organisation http://bibba.com/

Good luck with it

A

[catchercradle]

I Believe on Orkney Mainland they have AMM. However, unless someone does something to improve forage, they will never get much honey without a lot of feeding there. Even with improved forage, the weather will stop massive yields.

[Jon]

Orkney has native type bees but not pure Amm afaik. Same for Isle of Man. Andrew Abrahams on Colonsay has pure Amm.
Several Irish breeders have AMM as well.